Business

Max Levchin’s War on Credit Cards

Because of the digital divide they’ve created? Because of algorithms treating people differently? Because of data-gathering practices? 

It’s a combination of everything. But 10 years ago, I think even trillion-dollar companies were perceived as going to elevate a whole generation of people, and make everything cheaper and more efficient and easier. Then 10 years later, the US as a country is less productive. All of this tech was supposed to make us more productive, but it didn’t. So we’re earning, on an inflation-adjusted basis, a lot less. And yet you have people running around with incredible net worths and valuations of companies that are still very, very, very high. 

I think, in a world where everyone’s going to win, you could be OK with somebody winning really huge because you’re thinking, “I’m also going to win, it’s going to be OK.” But 10 years later, well, some people won huge and maybe you’re thinking, “I think I lost. That sucks. I think it’s these companies’ faults.” That’s an unpolished version of the answer. 

You’re so steeped in economic trends that I think it would make sense that you’d put it in that context, in economic framing. But—

Well, people fundamentally care about their personal economics. More than even they would like to admit to themselves.

I think that’s true. But when you look at something like the strong reaction to Elon Musk taking over Twitter, how much of that is because society has been conditioned at this point to say, “This can’t be good, this billionaire is now taking over a platform.” And how much of that is actually, “We need to admit that social media has come to a place of chaos, and how do we manage that?” 

There’s a bunch going on there and I don’t know if I’ve fully thought it through. I think what’s happening at Twitter is Elon is sort of making sense of it. He’s probably saying, “What are we really working on? Do we have enough earning capacity? Do we have enough advertisers or whatever it is we need to make money?” That’s probably his point of view on a daily basis. I haven’t talked to him about it, but—

Do you talk to him?

Yeah. 

How regularly?

Regularly-ish? It’s not a secret. I saw him at the PayPal 25th reunion party a couple of—it feels like weeks, but it was two months ago. Our friendship is on a texting basis. We talk about sci-fi and things. We’re both avid science fiction readers.

But yeah, I don’t know if I have a well-formed opinion. I really don’t see Twitter—and this doesn’t mean it’s an accurate statement—as a source of truth or news or  too much useful public debate. I think of it as a torrent of interesting thoughts and opinions, but that’s a personal choice.

We’re all living within our own filter bubbles. 

Yeah. I quit Facebook long, long ago and have not missed it, not for any other reason than that the signal-to-noise ratio is de minimis. On Twitter, I can choose who I see, so I limited my subscriptions [follows] to a small number. I sometimes see things I like, but mostly I just scan for Affirm mentions.

My primary use of Twitter is people complaining to me about some problem and I try to handle it for them. I love customer service work because you get to find out what people are like. People who talk to me on Twitter or email, they’re full-on normal. They’re in places where people need to decide between a couch and a baby carriage, and that’s a bad choice to have to make. And they get angry when they feel we should have taken better care of them. Talking to them gives you a really good idea of what life is like in most places unlike Silicon Valley.

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